concerning the 4-4 vs 5,6 split. i have seen very little info. about a deviation play regarding this hand. it would seem to be ill advised with any ten rich shoe (or dbl. deck for that matter)
Where DAS (double after split) is offered (on most if not all shoe games), double after split is proper on most 44 v 5;6 hands.Originally Posted by fiddler
Wong’s Professional Blackjack around pages 250 and 275 - hi lo and halves respectively - shows the indices for this.
At Starbucks right now. I think the numbers with the asterisk are meant to be utilized in reverse of the normal meaning. Right or wrong, I think page 259 is in error, likely around page 253 (hi lo section). I’ll have a peek at it later today.
Splitting 4’s v 5,6 is to get a 5,6 or 7 looking for the double. The count needs to be monstrously high to double vs splitting. Note doubling (not 44) 8 v 6 for example has EV maximizing count of True 1 with Risk Averse of True 3.
If you think Casinos were cruel bastards who prayed on the weak of mind to take their money while giving them free alcohol and the illusion of a chance of winning... Starbucks is far worse.. The mark up on coffee there and anything else would make a casino manager blush..
I think you are making this a lot harder on yourself than it is. The correct RED 7 play for a 4-4 vs a dealers 5 or 6 is ALWAYS a split, basic strategy play. There is NO deviation play for RED 7 for that combination so you JUST follow basic strategy REGARDLESS of the count. Remember, a high count can also hurt the dealer as well. So let's say you split those 4's.. Hand #1 you pull an 8 for a 12 against a dealer 5 or a 6 so you stand which is the CORRECT basic strategy play. The second hand you pull a 10 for a total of 14. There is no deviation play for a 14 vs 5 or 6 so you again use basic strategy which is to STAND. There are ONLY 13 deviation plays in TOTAL for RED 7 (no surrender) for a shoe game. You sacrifice some performance for a far simplier but still powerful counting system. Don't try and merge or somehow mix RED 7 with other counting system or deviation plays. If you want more complexity then you should really consider Hi-Lo or a level 2 system like Hi-Opt 2. The power of RED 7 is that it is simple and every deviation play only happens when the RC is either -4, 0 or +4.
Last edited by VonDox; 05-28-2024 at 12:42 PM.
Not really. Was out of town recently with horrendous crap in the main area. I was away on a family issue and thought I could pick up 1 session of $25 or $50 min. They were absolute crap. Wasn’t properly capitalized for the lousy $100 min game, so I decided on a conservative approach. Despite inconsistencies on this no surrender H17 game, the goniffs made a healthy contribution to my personal relief fund. Better game at Starbucks
My combinatorial analyzer gives the following:
1 Deck, NDAS, S17: Double against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 or 6 with RC < 2.
1 Deck, NDAS, H17: Double against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with RC = 2, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < 1.
2 Decks, NDAS, S17: Hit against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with 4<RC<5, Double against 5 and 6 with RC > 6.
2 Decks, NDAS, H17: Double against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with 0<RC<1, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -1.
4 Decks, NDAS, S17: Double against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with -3<RC<2, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -4.
4 Decks, NDAS, H17: Hit against 5 and 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with 6<RC<10, Double against 5 and 6 with RC > 11.
6 Decks, NDAS, S17: Hit against 5 and 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with 9<RC<15, Double against 5 and 6 with RC > 16.
6 Decks, NDAS, H17: Hit against 5 and 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with 8<RC<15, Double against 5 and 6 with RC > 16.
8 Decks, NDAS, S17: Hit against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with 11<RC<20, Double against 5 and 6 with RC > 21.
8 Decks, NDAS, H17: Hit against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Double against 6 with 11<RC<20, Double against 5 and 6 with RC > 21.
1 Deck, DAS, S17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Split against 5 and Hit against 6 with -2<RC<-1, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -3.
1 Deck, DAS, H17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Split against 6 with RC=-3, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -4.
2 Decks, DAS, S17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -3.
2 Decks, DAS, H17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Split against 6 with -6<RC<-3, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -7.
4 Decks, DAS, S17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Split against 6 with -5<RC<-3, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -6.
4 Decks, DAS, H17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Split against 6 with -13<RC<-4. Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -14.
6 Decks, DAS, S17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Split against 6 with -9<RC<-4, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -10.
6 Decks, DAS, H17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Split against 6 with -20<RC<5, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -21.
8 Decks, DAS, S17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Split against 6 with -12<RC<-5, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -13.
8 Decks, DAS, H17: Split against 5 or 6 with no other cards known (RC = 3), Hit against 5 and Split against 6 with -28<RC<-6, Hit against 5 and 6 with RC < -29.
The running count (RC) refers to the standard Hi-Lo system with tags [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,T,A] => [1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,-1,-1]. Each recalculation of composition-dependent optimal strategy with 4-4 versus 5 and 4-4 versus 6 on the CA was done by removing a ten (to bring the running count down by 1) or by removing a five (to bring the running count up by 1) until the strategy recommendation for one or both of the situations changed. Hope this helps!
Great Canadian somewhere in Toronto. How bad was the crap in the main area? I chose hi limit min $100 H17 NSR NRSA 6 deck 4.5,4.75/6 and that was the best game in the house that I saw.Not really. Was out of town recently with horrendous crap in the main area. I was away on a family issue and thought I could pick up 1 session of $25 or $50 min. They were absolute crap. Wasn’t properly capitalized for the lousy $100 min game, so I decided on a conservative approach. Despite inconsistencies on this no surrender H17 game, the goniffs made a healthy contribution to my personal relief fund. Better game at Starbucks
Thank you! Glad to help.
I don't know much about the KO system, but the EORs for each rank are the same regardless of the count system being used, so off the top of my head I would imagine you just have to subtract 20 (or whatever your IRC is for the number of decks) from each of the indexes I cited above so your running count is adjusted appropriately before each hand. If there's a subtlety to the KO system that would indicate otherwise, I'd be glad to consider it before I provide further recommendations.
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