New deck at cut

[VonDox]

And all of the shuffling is done off camera... These are outfits in some eastern European nations and who the hell knows what guarantees you get for honesty. I will never be swayed that online blackjack is winnable. I have seen some Youtube videos where theses 20'somethings bet outrageous amounts on-line and most of them don't even come close to playing basic strategy.. It's just PURE 100% gambling.. Go to a real casino.. Many of them have hotels and you can usally comp a room if you play rated.. If you are looking for place to play to make some money but want to come back regularly, playing rated is an option if your drive time is a factor. Then hit someplace like Chicago or Vegas to play hard at where there are lots of casinos you can play in case you get booted.

[Archvaldor]

And all of the shuffling is done off camera... These are outfits in some eastern European nations and who the hell knows what guarantees you get for honesty. I will never be swayed that online blackjack is winnable. I have seen some Youtube videos where theses 20'somethings bet outrageous amounts on-line and most of them don't even come close to playing basic strategy.. It's just PURE 100% gambling.. Go to a real casino.. Many of them have hotels and you can usally comp a room if you play rated.. If you are looking for place to play to make some money but want to come back regularly, playing rated is an option if your drive time is a factor. Then hit someplace like Chicago or Vegas to play hard at where there are lots of casinos you can play in case you get booted.

I have played online for two decades now. My results are within expectation. I have never had any evidence of cheating. I am up very significantly. There are many credible players who attest to winning 6 and 7 figure sums online.

Probably some cheating does occur somewhere. Maybe directed at very high rollers as that is difficult to prove. But it is very easy to uncover evidence of cheating through statistical analysis when it comes to the entire playerbase of a casino and/or chain. Players do run unofficial audits all the time and share info. And mostly nothing is found. Casinos rig the game in the form of a house edge-rigging it more than that just means fewer players come back.

What idiots do on youtube or twitch or tik tok is not important. I am a moderately successful idiot on youtube and trust me I know. It is meant to be entertaining: don't take it too seriously.

[moo321]

I have played online for two decades now. My results are within expectation. I have never had any evidence of cheating. I am up very significantly. There are many credible players who attest to winning 6 and 7 figure sums online.

Probably some cheating does occur somewhere. Maybe directed at very high rollers as that is difficult to prove. But it is very easy to uncover evidence of cheating through statistical analysis when it comes to the entire playerbase of a casino and/or chain. Players do run unofficial audits all the time and share info. And mostly nothing is found. Casinos rig the game in the form of a house edge-rigging it more than that just means fewer players come back.

What idiots do on youtube or twitch or tik tok is not important. I am a moderately successful idiot on youtube and trust me I know. It is meant to be entertaining: don't take it too seriously.

Are you talking US-based online casinos? I've definitely seen cheating with foreign casinos. Several times. Lost 20 hands in a row at one casino.


Plus payout problems, which is the more common form of cheating.

[Archvaldor]

Are you talking US-based online casinos? I've definitely seen cheating with foreign casinos. Several times. Lost 20 hands in a row at one casino.


Plus payout problems, which is the more common form of cheating.

There is a lot of the world that is not the US. Some of it has countries with casinos which are significantly better regulated than the US gambling industry is. I notice Americans say "foreign" as shorthand for something shady-it is more complex than that.

I have also had a losing streak of rather more than 20 hands. It was at Intercasino, where I personally won high five figures. AP's took many millions of dollars off it-it had one of the best recurring promotional programs. I actually won the session. You need a larger sample size to prove cheating.

Generally speaking most online casinos pay. 99%+ in my case. They do bs you a lot with id requirements.

[toolyp]

Are you talking US-based online casinos? I've definitely seen cheating with foreign casinos. Several times. Lost 20 hands in a row at one casino.


Plus payout problems, which is the more common form of cheating.

Losing 20 hands in row online appears to be more common than admitted. But no winning 20 hands in row has been honestly reported. Talking here about playing with real money. Playing for fun is a totally different game. You get plenty of 10+ winning streaks. Plus lots of money you cant cash out because it’s not real. Say nothing of real money.

“payout problems”? No, they are nightmares! The best expectation – you threaten with public exposure.; they close your account and refund your deposit. No win, no loss.

This might as well be advertising in disguise for online casinos. No offence, just my honest exposure.

[Gronbog]

Losing 20 hands in row online appears to be more common than admitted. But no winning 20 hands in row has been honestly reported

I have experienced both not only online but in brick and mortar casinos as well.

One thing about perception and online play is that, while the frequency of rare events remains the same, it feels like these things happen more often online because, in terms of elapsed time, they do. On some online (but not live) blackjack apps, I can play between 600 and 700 rounds per hour. It's like experiencing an hour of fast real-life play every 10 minutes or an hour of slow play every 6 minutes. You will see a lot of "rare" stuff happening during a 2 or 3 hour online session. If you play online regularly you'll see a decade's worth of "rare" occurrences every year.

[toolyp]

I have experienced both not only online but in brick and mortar casinos as well.

One thing about perception and online play is that, while the frequency of rare events remains the same, it feels like these things happen more often online because, in terms of elapsed time, they do. On some online (but not live) blackjack apps, I can play between 600 and 700 rounds per hour. It's like experiencing an hour of fast real-life play every 10 minutes or an hour of slow play every 6 minutes. You will see a lot of "rare" stuff happening during a 2 or 3 hour online session. If you play online regularly you'll see a decade's worth of "rare" occurrences every year.

The probability for a 20-streak in 700 rounds is extremely low. Even in 7000 hands (10 hours). Worse, only the negative streak hits the player. How many 20-hands win streaks did you have in any, say 7000 rounds? Zero, reality or perception. The long streaks are lobsided in favor of the house. It is not “the memory is selective” as casinos explain. No offence, just my honest exposure.

[Archvaldor]

The probability for a 20-streak in 700 rounds is extremely low.

It is. However the problem is that you aren't measuring the probability of a losing streak you are measuring the probability of a losing streak in a dishonest game.

Even with quite a lot of cheating the probability of experiencing such a streak is quite low.

It really is better to focus on a large sample size rather than something weird which happened within it.

This might as well be advertising in disguise for online casinos

To make this clear: I fucking hate the gambling industry. Online is every bit as bad as offline.

That said I made a ton of money online, mainly from bonuses. Cheating is no worse than offline: I have a huge sample of play to justify that.

Card counting offline and online is a very weak form of advantage play with extreme fluctuations. Most people who try it will give up. I don't recommend it to anybody.

[Gronbog]

The probability for a 20-streak in 700 rounds is extremely low. Even in 7000 hands (10 hours).

I agree. I didn't say I was seeing this kind of streak once every 700 or 7000 rounds. I said that I have seen them during my career, both online and in real casinos. These are once in a lifetime events in a real casino but possibly several times in a lifetime playing fast online apps.

Worse, only the negative streak hits the player.

Not in my experience. I have seen them both ways.

How many 20-hands win streaks did you have in any, say 7000 rounds? Zero, reality or perception

This question has no meaning. I have seen such a streak, meaning it is not impossible. During which particular 7000 rounds it happened is irrelevant.

[Archvaldor]

Can a game with 50% pen really be beaten though?

It can be beaten in the sense that you have a positive expectation.

You get quite a low return on investment fro any single table however. Which I think is what you mean.
That is why you play multiple games at once. If you get $3 an hour from each game playing 10 at once then $30 isn't a bad wage. It is not that difficult to play multiple tables at once since most of the time you aren't betting much or anything anyway.

The ROR from a single table would be high if you bet enough to make meaningful amounts of money. With 10 you get into the long run faster, you need less profit from each table and can risk less.

The "cards buried behind the cut card" phenomena is baked into the math and it affects all blackjack games, online or off, good or bad.

[moo321]

Can a game with 50% pen really be beaten though?

50% pen on an 8 decker is basically unplayable for a count game. With S17 LS DAS and a 1-20 spread, you're below minimum wage with the SCORE:Sim.jpg

H17 no surrender, which is probably the actual rules, and you might not even have an advantage.

[Archvaldor]

50% pen on an 8 decker is basically unplayable for a count game. With S17 LS DAS and a 1-20 spread, you're below minimum wage with the SCORE:Sim.jpg

Minimum wage is actually good when you can play 10 tables at once. In practice you are looking at $3-$6 per hour from each table.

If you can't multi-table then don't play. You also need to split immediately if the count doesn't go positive. This is obvious if you actually try this-you will end up just waiting for the shoe to finish wasting time while nothing happens.

[moo321]

Minimum wage is actually good when you can play 10 tables at once. In practice you are looking at $3-$6 per hour from each table.

If you can't multi-table then don't play. You also need to split immediately if the count doesn't go positive. This is obvious if you actually try this-you will end up just waiting for the shoe to finish wasting time while nothing happens.

Are you talking about back-counting these games? I guess you could get a tiny edge, but I don't see how you're keeping the count on ten tables without a computer program. Maybe that's your move.